00:34:23 E13: Our connection is awful so we're going to go out and come back in again. 00:45:52 E16: I also picked up on the word 'all' 00:45:53 E13: We're really struggling here. Can't hear so will try again. 00:49:49 E11: some archives will have some media they haven't extracted or audited yet 00:49:58 E08: I also went with 'all' as the key word 00:50:27 E10: I think in a LG context they might only have identified, but not extracted as E11 says 00:50:50 E11: 100% coverage including known unknowns 00:51:03 E02: yes 00:51:18 E14: They ahve attempted to identify all files in their collection 00:52:00 E14: (there may still be some media hidden away in boxes with paper files they don't know realise is there-hence some uncertainty) 00:54:53 E11: Q2 demand and interest in digital preservation for beginners is still high so many still unsure of taking first steps 00:57:38 E02: I think the demand is there but you (in my experience only gain the skills during a crisis) 00:57:56 E22: I agree that it's a lot to do with confidence 00:58:14 E02: just like Teams take up, people moaned about it, then COVID hits and people take it up 00:58:41 Alex Green: @E02 a crisis where you have to take some action to preserve a file? 00:58:59 E11: is a technical barrier to implementing DROID (esp county councils) but this is about awareness rather than capability 00:59:04 DP-Team TNA: Good analogy E02! 00:59:10 E02: yes, or a systemic failure (bad batch of disks... solar flare) 00:59:15 E02: flood 00:59:30 E18: I assumed a lot of people had the resourcefulness and capacity to learn and use that skill very easily and quickly if they were put in a position where they had to by their organisation. Given the resources out there. 01:03:58 E16: that;s how I also understood the Q 01:04:15 E09: That's how I understood it 01:04:19 E21: Yes agree 01:04:24 E20: agreed. If it was purely internal it would be a lot lower. 01:04:33 E04: Yes, I think so 01:05:02 E22: Yes I agree, I thought when it came to it and people who recognised they had something really important that they needed recovering they'd go to their IT as a one off at least 01:05:33 E11: we can hear you E13 01:07:31 E01: I think local authorities will be low. 01:12:20 E04: Yes. I agree 01:13:47 E10: E13 you just dropped out. 01:14:07 E07: Could you use the chat E13 - you are really coming and going 01:15:30 E09: Same with TNA for FOI 01:18:30 E19: formats tend to become ubiquitous via the universality of renderability 01:21:30 E12: Same here. 01:22:42 E11: I took a position that effort would focus on a small number of formats that were more frequent / common that would give best coverage leaving odd files/formats for another day 01:23:14 E21: Agree, I went high as if there are staff available with good skills they will find a way, consulting others online needed 01:25:58 E16: I went low to mid as I am unsure of how many tools actually exist to render file formats that are neither ubiquitous or open eg CAD 01:26:17 E16: that are accessible 01:26:26 E16: easily accessible* 01:27:17 E07: There are free open source tools for viewing CAD 01:27:57 E06: there are but we can't access them on our IT estate 01:28:04 E16: Thanks E07, that was just an example and from my experience we cant access them 01:29:41 E11: uncertainty over interpretation of "archive requirements" 01:30:05 E07: Agreed E11 - this one was hard for that reason! 01:30:57 E11: archivists are also used to receiving material with no context and discovering this from the archives themselves 01:31:05 E10: This is not unique to digital 01:35:41 E09: That's why my answers were quite high for this one 01:36:54 E06: I agree with E20 01:37:01 E13 and E01: I think it depends who does the digitising. If you are digitising then returning the originals then you'd take care to collect this. If you receive the digital file you have no control. E01 01:37:13 E21: I put high agreeing with both E14 and E20- going higher with Q7 for those reasons. 01:37:47 E21: Sorry Q8. 01:47:13 E11: we always want more from the system 01:47:23 E06: lol 01:47:51 E18: I agreed with E20. I've never heard of an adequate catalogue system of digital asset management system for the next question. 01:48:23 E11: is also the fact that many know there isn't funding to improve so make the best of what they have 01:49:01 E11: being vocal is also a mechanism to encourage suppleirs to make changes 01:52:43 E10: Yes - agree with this latter point E11 01:52:53 E20: ^what E11 said... 01:54:58 E05: I assumed the question implied we were pretending the 1000 had a DAM, the same way we were pretending 1000 would have a catalogue 01:55:27 E21: Great! 01:55:29 E10: Great - thanks! 02:25:24 E18: If there is sufficient information management then you should already know the metadata. Therefore the records were taken in before there was a good system or there is nothing in the system as you can't find it with your good information management system 02:25:56 E11: Is the content metadata a red herring and we are focussign more on information management 02:26:57 E20: I was thinking that one can have very good information management but very poor information ... 02:27:30 E22: all of those reasons were why my spectrum was wide. The high because archivists are great problem solvers but low because you may know where the accession came from but not what the individual files are. 02:27:31 E16: thats how I interpreted it 02:28:07 E02: yes 02:30:31 E03: I thought like E22. Many variables, as E20’s point illustrates. 02:34:34 E11: we did talk about metadata extraction 02:35:23 E09: Would expect high with people with high technical skills, but I guess it could be similar to previous questions in terms of being able to install some relevant tools 02:35:49 E06: yes, tools and time 02:36:45 E10: Extracting and documenting? 02:37:50 E11: we will always have some files that we can't identify 02:41:01 E21: I interpreted this on how old it was. Thinking it could be a 12 month period in it’s 4th year of use. 02:41:24 E11: I wondered how many archivists will have an informed view on this 02:45:34 E07: I think not many E11! I don't have an informed view really ...apart from knowing that you should always have back ups and do fixity checking and carry out media refreshment in order to mitigate the risks of hardware failure 02:48:55 E20: again we don't *really* know how drives fail because they fix themselves and/or are fixed in the managed environment. 02:49:05 E11: I wondered if there were actual figures on this that could inform us rather than our guesses 02:49:17 E20: agree with E11 02:50:55 E13: agree with E20 02:51:19 E16: From knowledge gained, they fail less 02:51:49 E02: same 02:51:56 E11: i also thought that ssd doesn't have moveable parts so more reliable than hard drives 02:52:01 E12: In expert knowledge as well. 02:52:22 E16: Yes E11, I thought the same 02:52:36 E10: Does the spectacular impact of failure means these NAND discs are unable to repair themselves in the same way? 02:53:57 E20: As E19 says, they have a definitive number of read/write cycles and will go pop entirely; rather than simply corrupting an area of the disk. 02:54:19 E10: Thanks! 02:56:03 E11: older media also with reader issues eg floppy disks 02:57:10 E02: same 02:57:15 E09: I would increase as well, with more uncertainty 02:57:24 E11: are we assuming we haven't taken the files off..? 02:57:54 Alex Green: @ E11 yes 02:58:05 Screen sharer (Hannah): not talking about data loss, just media failure 02:58:47 E02: that's every meal E20 ;) 03:03:58 E20: USB stick in the washing machine anyone? 03:05:28 E21: Yes, I did the same, E07. 03:05:42 E16: me too! 03:05:45 E11: i agree E07 we have many floppy disks in a box within a box (but the data has been removed!) so assumed some would surE13e for this reason 03:05:48 E06: snap 03:05:54 E16: a lot of uncertainity 03:05:59 E03: Me too 03:06:49 E22: I did the same, I started high and then thought most archivists will think about where they put these collections, there not goign to put them on the floor or bottom shelves so moved much lower 03:08:08 E19: i took at as - given complete submersion of 1000 storage media, how many would then be recoverable 03:08:21 E02: definitely, could be the same training like they do with physical collections, or an add on 03:08:34 E18: Could we have a budget for this question? 03:09:38 E20: Yeah - Nasa recovered data from Challenger. But that was NASA. 03:10:37 E07: I think any training on this should focus on encouraging folks to get the data off the portable media so that there is always have a backup 03:11:24 E18: Deep sea divers 03:11:55 E20: deep sea *drivers* - boom boom! 03:13:18 E20: am guessing this is to do with media obsolescence? 03:14:19 Screen sharer (Hannah): as opposed to file format yes, so obsolescence of essential equipment to read from the media 03:14:20 E21: My thinking as well to what David said. I put medium high on that one. 03:14:24 E19: i confess i'd assumed format obsolescence 03:14:50 E19: but media obsolescence makes sense given the question 03:16:28 E20: I mean everything will be subject to obsolescence. It's a question of capacity and investment against the size of the problem. 03:16:54 E09: I think budget would be involved here as well 03:22:05 E20: my sense is that storage technologies are a bit of a red herring for digital preservation. The challenges are much more about documentation and meaning making. 03:22:20 E20: … and money and policy 03:26:10 E06: i agree E20 03:27:24 E13 and E01: Completely different in local authorities.... 03:29:35 E16: 'large extent' was the key term that determined my decision....it can be challenging to work with IT sometimes! 03:30:05 E02: yes, I did the same 03:30:56 E08: Corporate IT isn't set up to address specialist needs like those of digital archivists IMO. Is difficult even when you want to be supportive 03:31:39 E20: Glasgow City COuncil IT department gave me a USB stick which was locked in such a way that it could only be used on my GCC desktop PC. Think about that for a moment. 03:33:15 E07: :-) 03:33:25 E16: yes I agree with that 03:34:57 E08: quite a difference, my own experience in firewall security places it on the higher frequency side 03:35:03 E06: for me the uncertaintly was personal 03:35:08 E06: lack of personal knowledge 03:35:42 E20: This is pretty wide from me as I don't really know this topic well enough 03:37:01 E22: i thought there was an impliction in the question that there were other types of attack that i didn't know about 03:37:22 E22: my knowledge in this area is very very limited 03:38:28 E11: E07 I agree 03:38:42 E02: nope, all good 03:39:53 E21: I put high- only judging from when I read reports of them. 03:41:27 E02: yes 03:43:22 E09: Think I put high on this one but meant to put low! 03:44:16 E09: sorry! 03:45:22 E16: Preservica does it regularly 03:45:46 E16: it does report on failures/errors when fixity checking 03:46:20 E16: I think Preservica fixity checks daily 03:46:31 E16: but you have to have the stuff in there 03:49:10 E20: I answered the old question 03:49:44 E09: Would say corruption of files would be low, but corruption of metadata could be high depending on processes 03:49:55 E11: I had a question about how would you tell - relies on depositor checksum and also transfer process 03:51:49 E20: I did the old question too 03:53:56 E11: I wasn't sure what the full implications of poor system security might be - are we talking just left and not managed 03:56:14 E20: sorry I have lost track a little. Did we revise Q33? 03:57:00 E19: - Q33: Out of 1,000 files, at an archive where you have poor system security, how many would you expect to have become corrupted and not been able to identify this, despite having a checksum to compare to? 03:57:37 Alex Green: thanks E14 03:57:38 Screen sharer (Hannah): Yes, out of 1,000 files at an archive where you have poor system security, how many would you expect to have become corrupted and not been able to identify this, despite having a checksum to compare to? 03:57:46 E20: thanks! 03:57:59 E20: I answered the old question again 03:58:50 E12: Isn't that the old 33 question 03:58:52 E20: Me too 03:58:58 E16: that was Q33 03:59:05 E16: Q34 04:00:05 E18: I didn't understand this or the next as I wasn't sure how to quantify something you can't prove or measure? As you don't have the original checksum so it is uncheckable 04:07:06 E11: E20 - would te lookup be considered technical metadata or content metadata 04:09:26 E20: am not sure! 04:14:13 E09: I went high because of assumption that technical metadata could be extracted before rendering, are we assuming you wouldn't for this purpose? 04:14:48 E20: Yeah I was imagining the technical metadata was not accessible at all, therefore cannot be read at all. 04:15:10 E20: Such as dependencies to external things, data models etc 04:16:01 E20: am gonna have to sign off this lunchtime 04:16:02 E07: good call! 04:16:06 E21: Great! 04:16:11 E02: yes, hungry.